Board Thread:Movie discussion/@comment-26025032-20150714040236/@comment-17754282-20150823180657

108.209.116.49 wrote: Sprinter1988 wrote: VelociraptorDelta wrote:

Sprinter1988 wrote:

108.209.116.49 wrote: QuakingStar wrote: Bring Spino from JP3 back.. he was a true badass.. hunted the humans and killed the Tyrannosaurus Buck(already proved it was an adult male if you checked the wikia you'd know) FINALLY! Someone can speak my language! Just bring him back and the pussy with small arms can step off it throne, and provide it to a new lord and master. LONG LIVE SPINO!

The Spinosaurs were a very specialised and short lived group that lost the evolutionary "arms race" well before the end of the age of the dinosaurs. Their ancestors, the Megalosaurs, also lost out, as did the Allosaurs and their decendents the Carcharodontosaurs. By the late cretaceous, anywhere where large Dinosaurs still dominated, the apex predator had a large head and short arms - in North America and Asia it was the Tyrannosaurs (T rex, Albertosaurus, Tarbosaurus etc) while in South America, Madagascar and India it was the Abelisaurs (Carnotaurus, Majungasaurus, Rajasaurus etc).

If arms were so important why did the large carnivores who had them die out while the short armed varieties dominated right up to the end?

Not a valid argument. I don't think if I went to the Nile I'd see a Spinosaur. They all died out. You seem to have missed my point. Tyrannosaurs and Abelisaurs died out when a freakish act of nature (a meteorite slamming into earth) wiped them out along with everything that weighed more than a few kilograms. Megalosaurs, Spinosaurs, Allosaurs and Carcharodontosaurs died out when the Abelisaurs and Tyrannosaurs became dominant. That is because no one has found another dinosaur with arms, yet, but I can promise you that in the end the evolutionary process of the Spinosaurid family must have continued onto the Late (I can remember the name) period. Thus there will have to be an animal that was the superior of a T-rex. After all there was an overapter the size of a T-rex that had long arms, and more than likely eat it for breakfast.

Shot arms are a true handi-cap, and in a harsh enviornment at that time how the hell was T-rex going to stand the test of time has an extinction event not conviently took it out? What we saw in JW was proof that long arms beat no arms any day at any time. Just look at how easily I-rex took out a Ankylosaur with just its arms! Had that been a T-rex the only thing it could have used was that big head of his, and would have been dead in a second. Plus, the Apatosaurs were cut to shreds by the I-rex's ability to use its arms.

So when it come down to arms vs strong bite

arms > strong bite

I am going to have to go with the animal that is bigger, has arms, and is smart enough on how to attack, which by the previous standards Spinosaurus had. Sure it died out, but wheres the proof that an ancestor did not continue? You failed to mention that part. Moreover you failed to mention true facts about why anyone should believe that the T-rex and these other dinosaurs were the dominat apex predators. Strong Bite is an overated argument And what is your "evidence" that Spinosaurs lived on through to the end of the Cretaceous? The last known spinosaurs were Oxalia, known from Brazil, and Spinosaurus from Egypt and both died out 98/97 million years ago. The wetland environments that they specialised in changed and they were gone.

As for the Oviraptorosaurs, the largest was Gigantoraptor which, at 8 metres long, was much smaller than Tyrannosaurus and was also extinct by the time the Tyrannosaurs became dominant!

You want further proof that the large head and small arms design won out? Let's look at the places where Dinosaurs occurred at the end of their reign:

Hell Creek Formation: Montana, North Dakota and South Dakota, USA -

Dominant large carnivore: Tyrannosaurus - Tyrannosaur. 12-13 metres long

Other large carnivores: None

Small carnivores: Aznu - Oviraptorosaur, 3.3 metres long

Acheroraptor - Dromaeosaur, 2 metres long

Possible Troondon remains - Troodontid, 2 metres long.

Tyrannosaurus is also the dominant carnivore throughout nearby sites dated to the same time period, occuring in Wyoming, Colorado, Utah and Possibly Texas, USA along with Alberta and Saskatchewan in Canada. None of these sites contain another large predatory dinosaur at the same time as T rex, far less one with long arms.

Nemegt Formation, Mongolia

Dominant large carnivore: Tarbosaurus - Tyrannosaur, 10-12 metres long

Other large carnivores: Alioramus - Tyrannosaur, 5-6 metres long.

Small carnivores: Many Oviraptorosaurs and Dromaeosaurs/Troodonits, none larger than 3 metres in length.

Other large theropods: Deinocheirus (Ornithomimosaur) and Therizinosaurus (Therizinosaur) - both rivaled Tarbosaurus in size, but both were primarily herbivores.

No large predator with long arms.

Horseshoe Canyon Formation, Alberta, Canada.

Dominant large carnivore(s): Albertosaurus and possibly Daspletosaurus. Both around 9 metres in length.

Other large carnivores: None

Small canivores: Atrociraptor (Dromaeosaur) - 2 metres long.

No large predator with long arms.

I'm getting bored with this now, but the same can be said for the Oldman Formation, Alberta, where Daspletosaurus ruled, the Two Medicine Formation where Gorgosaurus rules, the Dinosaur Park Formation where Gorgosaurus and Daspletosaurus occurred together, and the Kirtland Formation, New Mexico, where Bistahieversor was dominant,  Then there was Teratophoneus in the Kaiparowits Formation in Utah and Zhuchengtyrannus, found in the Wangshi Group of Shandong, China.

And that's just the Tyrannosaurs! Looking at the areas where the Abelisaurs Carnotaurus, Rajasaurus, Majungasaurus, Aucasaurus and Abelisaurus ruled in Argentina, India and Madagascar you see the same pattern - largest predator has a big head and short arms, and no large predators with long arms exist.